When I talk with Apple enthusiasts they often question me why the heck I prefer crappy PC over super cool Apple computers. My main reasons are the freedom of choice, developer tools and the fact I can make money with PCs (update: read Windows).
Perhaps I will write more about the three reasons later, but for now, check out this article that describes a part of mine first reason. I don't know whether one can buy a non-Apple memory module or not, but the price of the Apple's (slow) 2GB module is insane (smaller modules are overpriced, too). And if you have no other choice the situation is errr…ridiculous. But hey, one gets free shipping and an Apple logo on the memory chips (or not, who knows)!
Well I guess your concerns are valid given the lack of information or understanding behind them, but you _could_ do a tiny bit of research.
Apple computers use standard memory, so the answer is yes, you can buy any old memory module you want and put it in to your computer and not pay ridiculous prices. Apple is clearly a rip-off in the memory department, but that is easily avoided.
The complaint that I really don’t understand is developer tools. Apple includes extensive, excellent developer tools with EVERY copy of OS X (even the ones you get with your computer purchase). Free. Gratis… What’s not to like about that?
As far as “making money,” I’m sure you do make money with PCs. Lots of people do and that’s great. More power to ya’!
Miha:
Yes you can buy aftermarket memory and other hardware items for the Mac computer. And much cheaper then you would pay for Apple branded items. Which is normal with any “branded” products. To check on Apple compatible memory check out “4allmemory” I think.
Any other reasons that you prefer a PC?
To educate your self a bit better on Mac check out Macsurfer.com
Jan.
you’re right. the price for more ram is insane. here in swiss there is a company that sell cheap ram for macs… http://www.letec.ch (159 CHF for 2 GB)
i wonder why peoples are willing to buy the iphone. that prices are insane too: the iphone is *beep* expensive and also the monthly subscriptions costs… t-mobile (germany) want 49 EUR every month for the cheapest subscription… that’s really crazy.
Memory: Good to hear that you can use a standard module. But still, why is Apple ripping off customers? Do you really think that majority of people will watch around other vednors for memory upgrade when there is Apple selling it? And what would happen when Apple grows big enough to impose its memory modules. Anyway this memory thing is just a small part of freedom of choice.
Developer tools: You’ll hardly convince me that Apple has better tools compared to Microsoft (think .net).
I buy memory for my macs at 18004memory.com. They sell all kinds of brands and it always works in my macs, and its much cheaper than Apple’s, which by the way is labeled Hynix, not Apple, in my latest macbook. You really need to look a bit deeper at macs. You sound a bit uninformed. Nearly all components in any Mac are generic. And externally I use a Acer external monitor, a Lacie burner, various branded external hard drives, and a Logitech bluetooth mouse on my Macbook too.
That said Apple’s Airport Extreme N is clearly the best for both Apple and PC. And I love my ipods too and most of those sold are hooked up to PC’s.
john
I buy memory for my macs at 18004memory.com. They sell all kinds of brands and it always works in my macs, and its much cheaper than Apple’s, which by the way is labeled Hynix, not Apple, in my latest macbook. You really need to look a bit deeper at macs. You sound a bit uninformed. Nearly all components in any Mac are generic. And externally I use a Acer external monitor, a Lacie burner, various branded external hard drives, and a Logitech bluetooth mouse on my Macbook too.
That said Apple’s Airport Extreme N is clearly the best for both Apple and PC. And I love my ipods too and most of those sold are hooked up to PC’s.
john
Judas Iscariot and Larry Flynt also made money through scummy activities. Where is your self-worth? Is there a soap powerful enough to wash off the MS filth at the end of the day? ๐
But can I create my own Mac? Let’s say with a RAID0 and RAID 0+1 (or 5) array with array controller and disks of my choice, two network cards, two graphic cards in SLI (aka 4 monitors), all memory of my choice, internal hardware faxmodem. My uneducated guess would be no. So, can I?
Regarding filth, if Apple had the power of MS the situation would be far worse. That’s my opinion. Just look at how closed is their software/hardware. I wonder why there is so much buzz about unlocking iPhones.
@Miha Markic: My comment on .net; I am a MSCD (Microsoft Certified Solution Developer), and I have spent close to 10 years earning food on my table by developing for and with Microsoft’s techonologies.
I have also used Xcode, and Cocoa for 5 years now, and I would not hesitate one second to say that .net and is not even close to Cocoa in functionality nor form.
Miha wrote: “Developer tools: You’ll hardly convince me that Apple has better tools compared to Microsoft (think .net).”
Have you LOOKED and worked with Apple’s developers’ tools? Instead of someone trying to convince you, why don’t you actually work with their developers’ tools for a month or two and then publish your comparison? It would give you something to blog over.
BTW, *anybody* can make money with Windows-based computers. All of the flaws, security holes, and idiosyncrasies of Windows helps to keep IT professionals and thousands of businesses making money. Similarly, a company that makes and sells “cop killer” bullets makes money thanks to gun manufacturers. I don’t know if that’s necessarily a good thing.
@Yucko:
as compared to having to wash off the arrogant and ultra-proprietary filth from Jobs and Co, you mean?
Is the developer tools. And that’s your own opinion since some may find .Net to be less than they hoped (but, that would be their opinion, right?)
As others have pointed out, your “memory” argument was not researched on your part. I’ve purchased RAM for my Macs from BestBuy, Staples, NewEgg.com, etc. I’ve also upgraded my Macs (aside from memory) with components purchased from retail/online stores.
Your 16:50 comment, regarding Microsoft’s power vs Apple’s power is pure conjecture on your part. There is no way one can argue whether Apple WOULD or WOULDN’T do something based on What Ifs.
Lest not we forget who was convicted of using their monopoly in a criminal way….
Finally, you’re right – you can’t build your own Mac from scraps. But, that isn’t the market Apple is going for. So, if you want to piece together a machine, go for it. But, everything you listed for your “custom” pc is available from Apple. I’m not arguing that it’s the same thing…it’s not. However, when you purchased the Mac, you’re going to get high end hardware with top end software…and a warranty.
Most OEM’s charge ridiculous amounts for memory upgrades and only the foolish buy from them. As for building your own Mac? Again, OEMs build the machine you want based on what they offer. Anyone building their own isn’t buying a Mac.
Apple is made up of people – which is clearly news to some people.
Those people have demonstrated again and again their commitment to making great, easy to use but powerful products.
And the people at Apple use those products all day everyday.
Now look at Microsoft. Engineers, not much taste or style, and little care for usability and customer experience.
I’ll put money on a lot of the latter using iPods and Macs, and none of the former using Zunes or Windows PC’s.
Which says it all really.
Miha, you really gotta think before you spout on in such an uninformed way. Apple prefers to ship computers configured and standardized, including memory modules. So they give you an F’ off price which is to say ‘we would rather you got it somewhere else, but if you insist, we will charge you this$$$$ much ‘cos we would rather not have to open the box/upset the production line etc.for such a trivial matter as fitting ram’. they do advise tho’ that you buy better quality stuff as cheapo modules will surely mess up your Mac.
Who would ever have thought it…you can make money working with PCs – the concept is so alien to mac users I guess, in your world..
…now excuse me whilst I test your site with Vista running in Parallels on my MacPro. Yep, thought so…optimised for IE ;~<
Shees, what a nice crowd gathered here.
1. Memory argument: It wasn’t a poor research from my side. I actually did no research and I written it clearly. However, the fact that Apple is trying to rip, yes rip (unless somebody explains where that price comes from), their customers is not a good sign.
2. Development tool: Useless discussion as there is no objective ending.
3. “BTW, *anybody* can make money with Windows-based computers. All of the flaws, security holes, and idiosyncrasies of Windows helps to keep IT professionals and thousands of businesses making money”. ROTFL. No comment required.
4. “Most OEM’s charge ridiculous amounts for memory upgrades and only the foolish buy from them”. Right, like Dell for example.
http://search.dell.com/results.aspx?s=gen&c=us&l=en&cs=&k=2gb+ram&cat=prod
5. “Anyone building their own isn’t buying a Mac.” Sure, but I have a choice, don’t I? I can buy from OEM or build my own.
“they do advise tho’ that you buy better quality stuff as cheapo modules will surely mess up your Mac.”
Did you actually read what the others have written – nobody sane would buy RAM, that is just sold, not produced, by Apple for that price. And such advises should be prosecuted ๐ and that’s the point – I guess plenty of people, who are computer illiterate, will just buy it. Afterall its from Apple – it has to be the right one.
“Did you actually read what the others have written” well yes actually, but since you ask, did you??
“1……..I actually did no research…” and that qualifies you to make an assessment of Apple’s policy?
“2. Development tool: Useless discussion as there is no objective ending.”
…this is a typical slippery joe argument. First YOU bring up the superiority of Windows tools and when some point out(including an MSCD) that your thinking is perhaps unconvincing, you declare the argument ‘useless’
“3. “BTW, *anybody* can make money with Windows-based computers. All of the flaws, security holes, and idiosyncrasies of Windows helps to keep IT professionals and thousands of businesses making money”. ROTFL. No comment required.” On the contrary. I think we can all see where you are coming from and as per the rest of the reasoned posts here…you have no convincing answer or leg to stand on.
Personally, i would like to see all disingenuous slippery-joe bloggers prosecuted….see what i mean? you sound ridiculous.
I’ll wager that the number of people in the world who build their own PCs is less than the number of people who use Macs. Translation: in the context of even the Windows PC market, you are FRINGE, and are not the market of Apple or Dell or HP or Gateway or IBM or Acer or even Daiwoo. Apple serves the mainstream, as do Windows OEM manufacturers. Regardless, that flexibility is indeed there on the “PC” platform and isn’t there on the Mac platform. For many, however, this is irrelevant.
The trouble with this absence of vertical integration on the Windows platform is that this is a cause of conflicts, Registry corruption and generally is a hassle (for those who see conflicts and Registry corruptions as being a hassle, that is… every man must have a hobby, and SOME make a career out of those hassles. Don’t they? ๐ ). A VERY conspicuous example of the benefits vertical integration (Apple’s philosophy) is BOTH the xBox 360 and most conspicuously, the Zune marketplace->Zune host software->Zune player. It is obvious that MS sees the light with regards to vertical integration… the face-slap to all of those “Plays For Sure” partners is testament to this. They just (no one can) simply impose vertical integration upon the entire Windows market. it’s too large. It’s DONE… and Windows users who do NOT take advantage of the DIY option — who buy from Dell et-cetera — are unfortunately the victim of those open platform hazards.
So, DIY PCs may work for some but is FAR from a desirable solution for all. Hopefully, you can see this, and therefore concur that, in many users’ situation, a Mac is “more right” to more people than they may realize.
It’s not all about you, and the Windows platform is bigger than “you”.
But, speaking of YOU, you really should get your shit together before blogging about Apple, because you’re looking pretty ignorant and out of touch. Like, the 1990’s called for you; they want their dated and erroneous notions back!
So, what is the answer to the Apple ridicoulously price policy then? Taking care of customers?
2. I did say that *discussion* is useless as there will be no end as I’ll say this and somebody will say that and we’ll play ping pong. But for example, does that Cocoa (Objective C) have something like LINQ? Is the framework language independent? How about 3rd party components? Does it have pointers? etc. And don’t forget if a person is a MSCD it doesn’t mean that his answer is a global truth, afterall, he (nor you) didn’t stated any argument.
3. What can I say. The majority must be wrong and the Apple does just perfect.
http://www.macworld.com/news/2007/04/30/daizovi/index.php
Miha,
With all due respect (and I really mean that) most of the reasons that you give for prefering a PC (Windows) system over a Mac are the same old arguements that people have been giving for years… and most of them are misinformed.
First, I don’t know anyone who buys their memory from the same company that they buy their computer from. Regardless of the company, if you do that you’re going to pay more. Ususally if this happens to someone it’ll only once. Just a little research and patience will net you far lower memory prices at several online retailers and yes, Macintoshes use standard memory. Personally, I never buy Apple memory. Next, I would be very wary of using or quoting The Inquirer as a source of information. They have a reputation of reporting SOME of the facts while adding a healthy dose of tongue-in-cheekyness.
Second, you can make money with any computer. You don’t need a Windows based PC just to do that. Recently, I visited a photographer friend who runs his whole digital photography business from his Mac. He does mostly corporate and advertising photos. That’s just one example. I’ve managed my household and my business from my Macintosh as well. There are several businesses that use Macintoshes. Their reasons vary but obviously they’re making money with them. Yes, more companies use Windows but that’s not really the point. Point is you can use other OS’es to “make money”.
Your last reason for your preference does have substantial validity. My father always told me “Get the right tool for the right job”. If your job is being a Windows Developer then you MUST have a Windows based PC. It’s as simple as that. It is the right tool for the right job.
With regard to “building” a Mac the short answer is probably not if not somwhat difficult but this is a point several people have brought up for years and the reply I give is this:
[i]The majority of people don’t want to build their own computer. Most people want to buy everything together, take it home, plug it in and do “computer stuff”. That’s why Dell became such a big company. Their whole selling point is “We’ll build it for you.” It’s how Michael Dell started, building PC’s for people who didn’t know how or didn’t want to. If everyone wanted to build their own computer, he wouldn’t have a business.[/i]
The computer set up that you mentioned is not your average PC. I would guess that it is configured to best suit the needs of your work. Not everyone does that kind of work so not everyone needs that sort of computer. It’s very specific to your needs and that’s cool. All I need is a computer, decent graphics, printer, UPS and outboard back up drive (which I could expand into a RAID… but I don’t need it). You might not be able to “build” your own Mac from scratch but you certainly could configure it that way if you wanted to and you had a PowerMac tower.
The reason I responded to your blog was to… well… caution you against misinformation. All too often people form an opinion from the idea that someone else got from reading another persons article that might have been misinformed to begin with. The truth is Mac users have “freedom of choice”. I could use the harddrive from your computer in my own… just format it. I could read your MS Office files. I could run Windows on my Mac using Boot Camp. But it seems to me that the reason, the main reason you prefer Windows over Mac is because you need a Windows based system in order to do the work that you do and that is what you’re most comfortable with. Beyond that it becomes speculation.
Over the years (since ’93) I’ve used and maintained my own DOS, Windows, Mac OS 9 and OS X (even dabbled with Linux) systems and by far I prefer Mac OS X as my system of choice. This isn’t based on what I’ve read in an article or what someone “told” me, this is based on everyday, real world experience… actually using the machines. If you prefer Windows I am not going to insult your choice. I use a Microsoft 5 button mouse and MS Word, Excel and PowerPoint (MS Office for Mac) everyday but I prefer the Mac operating system.
As I said before, I respect your choice but your reasons are based more on opinions, not on fact. It’s a blog, you have opinions, you state them here. That’s all good. But as a developer working in a Windows environment it makes perfectly good sense that you would use a Windows based computer.
-PG
Hi Phil,
“Regardless of the company, if you do that you’re going to pay more.” But how much more? 10%, 20%, 100%, 600%, 1000%?
“Ususally if this happens to someone it’ll only once.” So does robbery, after you won’t visit that parts anymore ๐
“Second, you can make money with any computer. You don’t need a Windows based PC just to do that.” Why would I bother? I am perfectly comfortable in Windows world and I don’t know any client who seeks custom made software for Apple OS. Remember, I am a ?*developer*/consultant. Will your friend pay me for developing software for him? I don’t think so. Note: I never ever said that one can’t make money with Macs or Apple or whatever.
“If your job is being a Windows Developer then you MUST have a Windows based PC. It’s as simple as that.” So, what’s the problem then?
“The majority of people don’t want to build their own computer”. True, I never said that either.
“could configure it that way if you wanted to and you had a PowerMac tower”. But still I am limited with the configurations Apple is giving me, starting with the processor and motherboard. 3 million of posible combinations ๐
“need a Windows based system in order to do the work that you do” true.
“If you prefer Windows I am not going to insult your choice.” neither will I your choice.
” respect your choice but your reasons are based more on opinions,”. Sure, they are based on my opinions and facts I listed in the post. That’s why I entitled this post: “Why ****I**** prefer PC…”
So, to sum it up:
– Does one have more choice in configuaration with PC?
– Development tools. Ok, this is a moot point. One would say no, other yes, and so on.
– do I make money with PCs? Yes. Would I make money with Mac? Who knows, but for sure it would be far more difficult given the spread of the Apple OS around the globe.
– Do I have Zune or iPod? iPod of course.
– Do I blindly believe that Apple is bad and MS is good? No.
– Is Mac a bad hardware? Not by any mean.
– Would I approve if MS would try to sell me hyperoverpriced memory module?
…
Ah, almost forgot. Inquirer is certainly controversial, but prices on *Apple* stores are for real, aren’t they?
People shouldn’t make comments about things they don’t have a first hand experience with. Writing a blog doesn’t excuse you from not doing a detail research on the product you are making comments about. The point of a blog is to share your experience in things. I guess most Apple users qualifies to talk about their computer experience, since most have to use a Window PC at some point in their life. There is a different between making money off other people misery for using a computer and using a computer as a tool for work for your job to make money. In the first case you will make more money in a Window PC machine and in the latter case you will make more money in a Mac machine as you spend your time on your work, not on if you computer will work.
Miha wrote:
“So, what is the answer to the Apple ridiculously price policy then? Taking care of customers?”
No. Their prices for optional RAM is an out-and-out cash-grab. Worse is that, with their notebook computers, their stock RAM configurations consume BOTH SLOTS inside the portables. So buying a stock MacBook with 1GB, for example, and wanting to buy third party RAM to increase the memory means that the buyer has to PITCH AT LEAST ONE OF THE 512MB STOCK STICKS OF RAM! Now, if you were thorough in your research (**cough-cough**) you would have had a valid point with which to support your argument regarding Apple’s RAM prices (you’re welcome). But, like much of this troll-bait you wrote, you were ignorant of the facts. Veeeeery typical of PC zealots such as yourself.
And don’t try to take the high road by saying that “discussion is useless” because of the endless tit-for-tat “ping-pong” arguments… because you just committed the crime of grabbing for straws by referencing the Quicktime security flaw… where the issue of security was heretofore NON-EXISTENT in both your original post AND the reader comments. And so the shell game begins, eh? Sad.
btw, that flaw is a platform agnostic one where the weakness lay with Flash — a technology NOT invented by Apple.
Having said that, I don’t think that Apple is perfect and I don’t agree with EVERY decision they make. They do, however, have a better design philosophy than Microsoft does. By design, I don’t just mean cosmetics; I mean they are more in tune with the end-user’s workflow than Microsoft is. Steve Jobs explains this in an interview prior to his return to Apple ( http://forum.roughlydrafted.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=489&page=1#Item_0 and here http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/30/magazine/30IPOD.html?ei=5007&en=750c9021e58923d5&ex=1386133200 ). Perhaps former MS exec and Vista visionary — someone you are surely familiar with, Jim Allchin — can explain it better. I’m sure you’re familiar with the email he sent Gates and Ballmer a couple of years ago ( http://www.microsoft-watch.com/content/operating_systems/allchins_buy_a_mac_email_exposed.html ). If not, read on! Some excerpts:
“I am not sure how the company (Microsoft) lost sight of what matters to our customers (both business and home) the most, but in my view we lost our way… I would buy a Mac today if I was not working at Microsoft… Apple did not lose their way… my point is about the philosophy that Apple uses. They think scenario. They think simple. They think fast.”
These are exactly the reasons why I use a Mac; I choose to benefit from Apple’s deeper thought on end-user scenarios. I could care less about how cool my MacBook Pro looks, and I’m running Leopard — Apple’s latest and greatest — on a nine year-old G4 Powermac that I have upgraded like crazy (SURPRISE!), but I’ll take the ugliest beige box you can throw at me so long as it’s running OS X. An excellent contrast between MS and Apple is how Vista’s “Windows Flip” and Flip 3D” are inefficient eye-candy when compared to the flexibility of OS X’s “Expose”, which Apple users have benefited from for well over three years now.
As for the majority being wrong? Don’t confuse ubiquity with quality, my friend. Microsoft became the de facto standard not on account of the quality of their technology but on account of Apple’s short-sighted greed back in the 1980’s and Bill Gates’ ruthless capitalizing on the opportunity that was derived from it. Bill Gates should not be remembered as a tech visionary but rather as probably the smartest BUSINESSMAN that ever lived. But in the beginning it was Apple’s crown to lose… and lose it they did.
Just read your new posting. I guess you must be one of the few consultant/developer that really gives real value to your clients. The ones I have experienced always promise everything and deliver 10% then try to get more money from you and deliver half written documentation that is useless to ensure future contracts for upgrade and charge a huge premium for a few lines of work because there is no choice. It seems the same from IBM to independent consultant/developer. I try to use as much off the shelve product as possible or have the development done in house using open standards these days.
IDIOT. Enough said.
If you prefer something over something else, you should at least know a little bit about the “else”. Otherwise your headline should read:
I’m not interested in something else, because I’m comfortable with what I’ve got
But that sounds like a somewhat boring headline. If you should develop an interest into Cocoa and the Mac for any reason, you may find the findings of another .NET-developer helpful. Just google for “Jim Hoffman”, “.NET” and “Cocoa”.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pnidlhBd7k
“But how much more? 10%, 20%, 100%, 600%, 1000%?”
**More is more. Doesn’t matter how much. If you’re paying more and you can find it for less, go somewhere else and pay LESS.
“”Ususally if this happens to someone it’ll only once.” So does robbery, after you won’t visit that parts anymore ;-)”
**Exactly. So don’t pay more. It’s your choice.
“”Second, you can make money with any computer. You don’t need a Windows based PC just to do that.” Why would I bother? I am perfectly comfortable in Windows world and I don’t know any client who seeks custom made software for Apple OS. Remember, I am a ?*developer*/consultant. Will your friend pay me for developing software for him? I don’t think so.”
**Yes. Later in my response I covered that. You develop for Windows. You’re comfortable with that. It’s what you “do” and you have machine optimized for that purpose. And would my friend pay you for developing software for him? I don’t know, he might… if he needed it. Remember: Macintoshes can run Windows.
“”If your job is being a Windows Developer then you MUST have a Windows based PC. It’s as simple as that.” So, what’s the problem then?”
**I didn’t say nor imply that there was one. You need what you have to do your job. You don’t need a Mac (although it is possible to use one). I haven’t been trying to convince you to change. I’ve actually been supporting the fact that you have exactly the tool you need. Just refuting the not entirely accurate information, that’s all.
“”The majority of people don’t want to build their own computer”. True, I never said that either.
*So why bring up creating your own Mac if you’ve already purpose built the machine you need?
“…Sure, they are based on my opinions and facts I listed in the post. That’s why I entitled this post: “Why ****I**** prefer PC…””
*Well that’s that’s the thing. It’s the facts that are wanting. This would be the point at which you point out how Apple memory is indeed more expensive and I say… “Yeah. We’ve covered that. But you can “Choose” not to buy it which makes that a moot point… unless you’re just looking for something to argue about.” I agree, Apple memory is expensive and I’d say you’ve been robbed if you buy it… but it’s weak platform on which to base a blog and a shallow reason to prefer one system over another. So…
1) You didn’t know whether or not you could buy standard memory…
you can.
2) Apple is trying to rip off it’s customers… Yeah, I believe they are and shame on them!! Of course Microsoft would never do that sort of thing. By the way, how much does Vista cost and how many versions are there?
3) You have lots of hands on experience with developing for Windows. Do you have lots of experience with Mac OS that goes beyond theory and discussion? If not and you don’t care and you don’t want to, then that arguement becomes moot. Do what you love, Do what you do best and the heck with all the rest. Look, I’m not trying to pick a fight here. When I said “… the main reason you prefer Windows over Mac is because you need a Windows based system in order to do the work that you do and that is what you’re most comfortable with.” it was not meant as an insult. One thing this world needs is good Windows developers. Actually, that was an affirmation that you should do what you are good at and that you should have the right tools to do it. I simply wanted to point inaccurate information. The Apple memory issue is way old, been done and goes nowhere fast because you can buy cheaper memory nearly anywhere- I had the same discussion with someone back in 2000 or thereabouts. If Windows is your bread and butter… then OF COURSE you would prefer Windows! And if you need developers tools that are Windows specific then you NEED a Windows machine. Never disagreed with any of those things. Rather than go on a limb and beef about Apple memory and development tools why not just say: “I prefer Windows over Mac because in my line of work it is necessary for me to get my job done, I prefer the way Windows works and it puts food on my table.”?
Watched your You Tube link. Funny…. but that’s old too. (sigh) I’ve been a Mac user longer than you’ve been a developer and every point you’ve brought up has already been made. I thought you might have had something substantial to add… but you don’t. Sorry but you’re late to the debate and you’ve come empty handed. You’ve got nothing, Miha. My mistake was thinking that you were smarter than that.
Further to Phil’s comments regarding you being a developer, I would think that it’s HEALTHY for developers to study the work of other developers and platforms, and therefore if you ever got a Mac you might learn something about your own work from that experience… and make you a better developer.
Phil, there are other persons named Miha, you know. Nevertheless thanks, for assuming I am the one and only. ๐
Back to my facts:
1. Apple 2GB memory is a rip off. T/F? T
1a. Can buy non-Apple module T/F? T (actually I never said T or F because it is not the point here – the above line is the point). BTW what happens to the guarantee and support if you use non-Apple recommended memory?
2. When buying a Mac or other Apple computers you are constrained by Apple. T/F? T
3. I am making money on Windows (PC). T/F? T
4. Development tools are better on Windows. T/F? For me, T. For others…as they want. Since there is no definitive rule here one can’t say T or F in general.
So, guys, can you answer differently to my statements?
That video was really funny when (honestly) when I first saw it four years ago.
This guy is indeed indeed a “Microsoft Most Valued professional” because he’s living with his head stuck in the sand… or somewhere.
Outta here!
Guys, I leave it to you to answer his questions but it is evident by the questions that he knows one thing very well…. and not much else. This whole exercise reminds me of Monty Pythons’ Arguement Clinic with Mr. Markic being the one behind the desk.
Alright you stupid shit.
1) If you want a Mac Pro, the price of Apple’s RAM is irrelevent. Mac Pro ships with 1GB across two slots. That leaves you with SIX RAM SLOTS to stuff RAM into it. So, buy the stock RAM config, pull some RAM off your parts shelf, shove ’em into the Mac AND STFU. God! For a guy who thinks he’s such an รผbergeek, you’re really REALLY parsing the facts to suit your Mac bitching.
1a: MORE parsing of reality, skirting issues because YOU chose to ignore a very REAL aspect of the Mac hardware platform because recognizing it would negate your argument, and that is that macs use STANDARD RAM. They way you bitch about this, it’s like because you see one gas station with overpriced gas, you won;t buy ANY gas anywhere. It’s DUMB.
2: When buying a PC you too are constrained — with the OPERATING SYSTEM. Can you order a Dell with Linux? Don;t think so. it was only after MASS protest against Vista that the PC makers convinced Microsoft to allow XP licenses as well. Had your MS butt-buddies had their way, however, it would have been VISTA FOR ALL like it or not.
Try to remember this: The computer is the glass, the operating system is the water you drink from the glass. Try and grasp that metaphor.
3. You sure are making money on Windows; a kludgy excuse for an OS, constantly under attack. Yup. Life suuuuuure is sweet for Windows techies.
4. Ah? Now all of a sudden dev tools are “a choice”?? Not the way you put it in your blog.
Your ignorance would have been one thing. But, your ignorant SARCASM (“But hey, one gets free shipping and an Apple logo on the memory chips (or not, who knows)!”) makes your comments moronic… makes YOU moronic. There is something called dignity, and your display of arrogance shows that you have no idea of what dignity means, or t be a professional in tech. If you’re any indication of the mindset of the tech industry in Slovenia, PLEASE stay there.
@Bob B
AMEN ๐
@Bob,
so you thing that it is good that Apple OS is not under attack?
Better yet, you think that Apple OS is not under attack?
You still believe that Apple OS is secure?
@Bob: ooh, pop a vein much?
>>”1) If you want a Mac Pro, the price of Apple’s RAM is irrelevent.”//Is it? Then why does Apple give you so many memory slots? Imagine how much it’s gonna hurt when you stick Apple RAM in there. And mind you, when we talk Mac Pro, we’re talking video editing workstations. And the thing you might not know about video workstations, Bob, but I do is that, video is very, very sensitive to components. Stick the wrong RAM in and you get no video. Plus, people who buy these workstations (workstations, Bob, not PCs) tend to also buy them with vendor-installed RAM. Just ask me.//
>>”2)…macs use STANDARD RAM.”//Bobbyyyyy. You know what they say about being economical with the truth? What is “standard” RAM, Bobby Bee? Is ECC “standard” RAM? Can the Mac Pro accept non-ECC standard RAM? Is non-ECC standard RAM the same price as ECC RAM? Say it for me, Bobby: how much more your Unca Jobs charge for GB stick of ECC RAM, hmmm?//
>>”They way you *** about this, it’s like because you see one gas station with overpriced gas, you won;t buy ANY gas anywhere. It’s DUMB.”//Buh… buh… Bobby. He hasn’t stopped buying gas. That’s the point of his piece. See? It says right there in the title: “Why I’m not buying gas from Apple”.//
>>”2: When buying a PC you too are constrained — with the OPERATING SYSTEM. Can you order a Dell with Linux? Don;t think so.”//
Oh, Bob. Really. You shout at the poor guy for being stuck in his Windows universe and not understanding how much the Apple land has changed. And then you go and do the same thing. Dell comes with Linux these days, Bobby Boy. Just go ahead and click over to the Dell website. Careful you don’t step on brimstone, now, hear.//
>>”Try to remember this: The computer is the glass, the operating system is the water you drink from the glass. Try and grasp that metaphor.”//Um. Is that glass half full or empty? Your glass looks kinda all jaggy to me.//
>>”3. You sure are making money on Windows; a kludgy excuse for an OS, constantly under attack.”//Oooh, Bobby, really. Insinuating that the OS X is perfect? Some day, someone will make you eat those words.//
>>”But, your ignorant SARCASM (“But hey, one gets free shipping and an Apple logo on the memory chips (or not, who knows)!”) makes your comments moronic… makes YOU moronic.”//As opposed to venting, I assume, mm Bobby?
>>There is something called dignity, and your display of arrogance shows that you have no idea of what dignity means…”//Oooh. And here I was thinking Apple is the one that’s arrogant. Nope, must be doing it all for the consumer like Mr Bob here.
>>”If you’re any indication of the mindset of the tech industry in Slovenia, PLEASE stay there.””>>Ouch. Is that… racism I smeel in the air? Near enough, I think, Bob. Near enough.
I own a Mac and believe that many (if not most) current Windows users would probably be happier using a Mac. Nevertheless I support Miha’s preference for Windows PCs. He is doing well as Windows developer and has no interest in Mac development. Why should he be compelled to switch?
Apple is not really targeting the relatively small market of computer experts. Instead they build computers for “the rest of us”. It doesn’t mean that Macs aren’t powerful or that they are just toys; it means that Apple takes extra care to make them easy and pleasant to use by mere mortals. For this they sometimes may charge a little bit more (although the add-on memory pricing is admittedly egregious).
Macs are not for everyone. While Apple satisfies the needs of a large number of people with relatively few computer configurations, they cannot possibly match the variety available by an entire industry of Windows PC manufacturers, let alone custom-built PCs.
Miha’s priorities are different from the average Mac owner. That’s all. Lighten up.
Correct errors if you must, but please remember that everyone is entitled to their opinion. You are not likely to win anyone over by insulting them… and not everyone needs to be won over.
I know how systems need properly spec’d RAM. Mac Pro needs 667 MHz DDR2 fully buffered (FB-DIMM) ECC RAM. We here keep trying to tell you how MOOT this entire RAM discussion is but you just don’t WANT to listen. fwiw, some links — take your heads out of yer asses for JUST ONE MINUTE please:
http://www.barefeats.com/quad09.html
“Apple is notorious for charging a premium for their memory… we have no hesitation in recommending Other World Computing and Trans International as good sources for Mac Pro memory… we don’t have much experience with MaxUpgrade’s memory products but do have experience with their other products which have proven useful and reliable… we don’t have much experience buying memory from Data Memory Systems. We have received good reports from readers.” So, that link cites FOUR ALTERNATE RETAILERS for RAM. And there are many more: http://www.ramseeker.com/memory/MacBook_Pro_(KITS)/
My argument re gas was that he’s “throwing the baby out with the bathwater”, to use an old phrase. But the plain truth of this situation is that Miha just doesn’t WANT to give the Mac platform a fair shake. Hence, any rational discussion — bringing up FACTS as has been don by several readers here — is pointless.
Re: the freedom to choose OSes on purchased systems. In the example of Dell, there are only TWO systems that Dell offers with Linux and this is because hey are geared towards scientific or engineering uses: the Dell Precision 690 and Precision T3400. NO OTHER systems have Linux as an option. BUT WAIT! That’s what it says on these system’s main page… but when customizing these systems the Linux option disappears! It’s only Windows. Ditto with their mid-level models it’s Windows all the way. But, if you want to consider the confusing array of Windows for the average Joe to try and choose from “choice”? Well, at least there IS a choice. Let’s see… there’s XP Home, XP Pro, Vista Home Premium, Vista Business and Vista Ultimate, Vista Home Basic… but it’s all Windows. No Linux. But Dell is beside the point (although they and other PC makers are complicit in maintaining Microsoft’s entrenched position). With a Mac, anybody can run Mac OS X, any recent version of Windows, Linux and of course UNIX.
And I was not insinuating that OS X is perfect. I was CLEARLY stating that the Windows platform has inherent issues that keep people like Miha WELL EMPLOYED. That’s great for him… but those inherent issues suck for the end-users. The sad thing is that the Mac platform is WAY viable for many — but not all or for everybody’s — uses. In fact, there are three terms I coined a long time ago. One of them is “Mac OS X is less imperfect than Windows”. The other is “The Mac is more right for more people than they realize”. These two phrases allow for a moderate, objective look a both platforms while addressing the general misconceptions of the Mac platform. And then, there’s the third term I coined some time ago when talking to people interested in switching to the Mac: “The worst thing about using a Mac IS TELLING OTHER PEOPLE YOU USE A MAC”. You guys in here are proving this point, perfectly. Although, with the recent increases in Mac market-share, along with the iPod/iPhone “halo effect”, the general perception in markets I know of is changing for the better.
And NO it is not racism; it is the point that in many countries Apple has a very obscure profile (despite their site @ http://www.apple.si/slv/ ) and the tech community may not be aware of what’s going on. As is often the case, techies tend to CLING to their assumptions at any cost. So, who’re the zealots in this thread? The Mac guys? Or, the PC guys??
@Brett Sher: Well said.
@Bob’s uncle: I would write something like that but I think the argumentation with “entusiast” (extremly mildy said) Bob won’t take us anywhere.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xo4BpgfWiBE
Indeed not everyone needs to be won over, and for DIY folks the Mac platform is NOT the right choice for them despite some of Apple’s form factors being amenable to upgrades. In fact, the Mac is NOT for Miha and for him “switching” would be less advantageous… although, a MacBook Pro running OS X and Windows would make an excellent developer’s platform for him, allowing him to further enrich his programming “chops” by studying how apps look and work in OS X. Like, in my profession, I study as many aspects of it as I can. The healthy attitude is to learn from others and deepen your insight into your chosen profession. But all we get from this guy is sarcasm and ignorance. His attitude is SO “last millennium” of you get my meaning,
When you contrast the ignorant assumptions that he weakly rests his opinions on with those of say, Anand Lal Shimpi, who is a respected “PC geek” ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anand_Lal_Shimpi ) and who in recent years added a section on Macs to his popular website, anandtech.com, the difference in the QUALITY OF INSIGHT into tech is stark. Even throughout my arguments here, I provide links to factual evidence to back up what I say. All wee get from Miha is what he THINKS is the case.
Want a piece of irony? Anand had a good hard look at the Mac Pro when it first came out. The following link contains his report on upgrading the Mac Pro’s CPU AND RAM (please note that this article is a year old, and Apple has moved onto other Intel mobos since AND have formally integrated the ability to dual boot Windows at the OS X level). There is great detail regarding RAM — and yes as I said Anand reports that Apple’s RAM is “other than a fancy heatsink, they are standard DDR2 FB-DIMMs”… and NO Miha, the stock Apple RAM does NOT have an Apple logo on it. http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2832 The next page of the review discusses third party RAM.
To conclude, if my posts are read carefully, it would be clear that I never questioned Miha’s CHOICE; just his level of awareness, his opinions based on false assumptions and his arrogant bias. All of this arguing and questioning of Miha’s intelligence wouldn’t be happening if he practised some adult-like thinking and learned of what the fuck he was talking about before posting.
That’s the DUMBEST, most unfunny “switch” parody of them all. The first one posted in here is hilarious!
You know you’re dealing with morons when they trot out the Drunken Gamer video. So been there. In fact, this whole thing here on this blog is so OLD — including my arguing with you idiots. BUH-BYE.
If you want to build a Mac, build one, what is stopping you? Open the case, stick in as many hard drives as you want, get a raid controller, load up the RAM. buy a better video card, what is the holdup? About the year 2000, I had a PowerMac 8600 with a fast G3 upgrade, A (flashed by me from PC to Mac) Radeon 7000, an IDE controller card, 3 hard drives (2 SCSI and 1 ATA), a spare optical drive so I didn’t ever have to take out my Diablo 2 CD, and a firewire/USB card. Most of these were generic PC parts I bought on Ebay with no drivers or support. I put all this crap in, installed OS X using ExPostFacto, since it was not supported on this machine, and IT ALL WORKED ON THE FIRST TRY WITHOUT INSTALLING ANY DRIVERS. Try that with a PC, and you will spend hours at driverguide.com trying to make it all work. The only limiting factor is the choice of motherboard, and Apple’s were and are top-notch in design and quality.
Do NOT bring up the IBook G3 and G4 motherboard problems, those problems plagued almost all laptops using the early Radeon graphics chip, regardless of brand. The iBook just got more press.
Useful information and resources..
I prefer use Windows PC rather because commonly used in my country , in my country Apple computer not everybody use it, but it used in certain business.